Reviving GR Suggestions

Greetings. I’ve gone by Nelm and Lourne during my tenure on Graal. Like many of you, I’m a fan of the game or what the game was, I should say. I’ve followed Graal Reborn off and on for years and once managed the short-lived, but popular Harmonia server before Cadavre and I merged it with the Official Graal Reborn server and lost interest. I frequently check back to see if there is any headway on a new client, which has pretty much been the so-called savior for Graal Reborn.

Lately, it seems the paradigm of the discussion here has returned to reviving the community here, so I thought I’d give my unsolicited opinions. Take these as what they are: from a relative outsider to this community, but also as someone who has thoroughly enjoyed playing in and developing on Graal for more than half my life. I don’t mean to ruffle any feathers or upset anyone, just give honest opinions on the state of GR.

Reviving Graal Reborn

Accept (for now) that the client GR has is the client GR hahas and work within its limitations -Yes, the client is limiting. Yes, it keeps GR from going further in terms of capabilities. However, the focus on creating a new client has really stagnated the community. It’s a tall task to rebuild the client and multiple people have attempted many different times to build one from scratch and it ends the same way. Having a new client would be wonderful, but realistically, it’s just not happening anytime soon - or possibly ever. So, working with what is available is the only option. Probably not what anyone wants to hear, but in terms of (re)building the community, perhaps focus should shift from down the road to what’s right in front of GR.

Playing, not developing -PC Graal has a serious issue. That issue is that it is now more of a development platform than it is a game. GR also has this problem. This is another thing that no one is going to want to hear, but GR needs to have a single playable server that has content that can hold a player base. As it sits now, there are more servers than there are players. Everyone wants to develop their own server, of course. But to really build a community of players, there needs to be only one server available to the public. Once the player base has grown and can support multiple server, open it up for more servers to become available. Have a PWA team that can adequately judge upcoming servers and don’t make them available until they are actually worth playing.

Yes, part of the draw to Graal is that it is essentially a development platform. It’s one of my favorite things about the game and what has held me for so long, but for the purpose of building a community, the focus should be on creating an inviting game environment, which I believe that not having a single dedicated server for the community as it sits is inhibiting.

People won’t play unless people are playing. If everyone is developing and no one is playing, no one is ever going to play.

Improve the website/forums/functionality - GR needs a legitimate homepage that can navigated with ease and has everything that a new player needs. I understand the need of tying game accounts to forum accounts, but many people who play games have little interest in forums. Reliance upon the forums for news, downloads, etc, is cumbersome for the general player.

Speaking of the forums, they need to be cleaned up and organized. There are many stickies that aren’t relevant or contain outdated information or broken links, etc. It should be relatively easy for a new user to find navigate and find what they need. I have never felt like this is the case with GR. The order of the forums and subcategories are somewhat confusing. The main focus of the forums should be Graal, yet General discussions have higher placement then Graal-related material. Maybe this is nitpicking, but I just feel like the forums could be much more sensible.

Advertising - I am not sure if there are limitations to what can happen here because of the use of Graal’s software, but it would be nice to see GR out there on gaming websites like indiedb.com or similar. Of course, this is only effective if there is a reason to stay once they come here, which hits back to the point of maintaining a single, official server. I saw the trailer that was made recently and things like that are a good start.

I thought I had a few other points, but I?m drawing a blank. If they come to, I will update this. Like I said, take this from somewhat of an outsider to this particular community. I definitely haven’t been here for the many years that some of you have, but nonetheless, I would very much like to see this community succeed.

Who are these people?

Most of your points are pretty much what I’ve been saying to people over Skype and in some random threads I’m not going to be arsed into finding.

On the topic of advertising… We are using GraalOnline’s client. It is their property. The only reason this is legal is because we are emulating their game without monetization. We can’t advertise because it isn’t our game, and we cannot have people pay for any content.

edit- Oh. Nelm. Your old accounts still exist. wtf

Well, I don’t think I did read such a clearly exposed explanation before. It is a bit weird however. It is hard for me to believe that the fact of asking money or not make it legal or not. That said, I sure understand it is easier to tolerate a project if it is not asking money. Also, a bit strangely, GPL license does allows to ask money. You can find a GPL software distributed on the net, download it, fix some bugs, and then sell your fixed version for a big amount of money. But then the clients are free to sell it or make it available for free. So if we want to ensure no moneytization is done, GPL would be a bad choice.

Not just that but people keep just saying “OH WE NEED TO DO ALL THESE THINGS” and then never do it. Everyone is just preaching to the choir and it’s getting kinda old.

No offense, but if anyone else is going to waste time typing up another long OP like this one, no matter who they are or how important, they should probably just spend time doing it instead. Everyone knows what needs to be done. What’s getting done right now is little more than jerking off about thinking of what we could be.

I’ve already said that I’m not going to do anything technical.

What really grinds my gears is when people show up, demand/propose stuff, then disappear. Like wtf happened to pixelghost?

All good, valid points.

I think we all recognize that we need just one fully developed player-world so that we can actually attract players, but this isn’t easy for myriad reasons. It all starts there, but since GR’s inception no one, to my knowledge, has successfully built a sustainable player-world. In that respect, I don’t think we can really harp on having too many developers (in reality like…5?) and no players.

No idea what the password is and I don’t have access to the email that it was used for. So, there’s that. Ain’t no thang.

Definitely not demanding anything. Like I said in the post, I’m a relative outsider, this is just what I see from the outside looking in over the last few years and what I think would be beneficial to the community. Many of the points I made are reasons that it’s hard for me to stick around here long term. Truth is, Graal is dying and it’s a decent part of my life and I’d like to see it live on. Putting my bets on it being here with everything that’s been happening with PC Graal.

GR is more than just one person and it’s going to take more than one person to make anything happen. Most don’t have access to forum management or any say in how anything goes, so your little quip of “they should probably just spend time doing it instead,” really is just quite ridiculous. It’s really up to the powers that be or those that have the ‘control’ over things to move in that direction.

Definitely. Building a legitimate playerworld isn’t an easy task, but it’s definitely easier than building a new client. The problem with one fully-developed world is that regardless of the amount of developers working on it, 2, 3, 5, 10…everyone is going to want something different, so it’s difficult to have people come together and maintain interest in developing something that may not be what they want. I’ve seen enough stuff come from the developers that are here to know that the talent is there to do it, even with a small team. It’s more of a question of if everyone is willing to put down their own projects and work on something that helps the community. That last part is easier said than done, no matter what community or what project.

Traditional Graal game play isn’t going to hold a crowd with the options around today. Even the height of Bomber Arena was people hanging out to see what Beholder was about to unveil. Multiple servers are no threat, if a developer is making interesting things people will hang around creating a group for new people to play with. Such a developer would be better off with something they could stream on Twitch anyway.

Would a good mini game server do better forced into Graal or on its own platform?

We could make some tools and tutorials for making more interesting content and maybe retain some interest that way, but I’m really not even sure about that.

It’s not ridiculous at all, get off your soapbox and join the rest of the crowd in making content. Go play the game if that’s your point. You’re probably the hundredth person to come in here and do this spiel.

Also who is “most people don’t have any say in forum management”? The users pretty much run the forums these days. I don’t see your point at all.

I’m not necessarily sure if that’s true or not. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. I, personally, enjoy the traditional gameplay of Graal - guilds, events, quests, etc. It’s relatively simple and not something I need to put tons of hours into. There’s 111 games in my Steam library, yet, I’d rather just play a Graal server that has 100 players. Maybe it’s Nostaligia or something, but it’s hard for me to believe that there still isn’t a market, even a niche one, for this type of game.

+1 to the tools and tutorials. Never a bad thing.

You should see some of the garbage that gets greenlit on Steam. Even that trash gets SOME kind of fanbase. I absolutely agree there’s people out there that’d be more than willing to come back to this. In fact, a thread on /vr/ about nostalgic games reminded me of graal and is what got me to come here.

There is no need to get defensive. His comments aren’t wrong and clearly he is trying to help. It doesn’t matter that it has been said before, because something like this is helpful. When new people come to this place they see exactly what he is describing. If we can manifest these into clear goals we might be able to make GR more approachable. This is especially important if GO does collapse and people turn somewhere for Graal. Do your part as a forum dweller and not be so low brow about this.

That’s cool, but only if GR stops making messages and starts actually doing stuff. Like I just said, Mol. There’s nothing wrong with being mad at people who are all bark and no bite. I don’t know how you don’t understand what I’m trying to say when you’re pretty much the only one with content right now.

I’m not discouraging anyone but people who try to run the scenes from a soap box. I could also care less about where GR goes, and quite frankly I feel like one of the only honest people around here who is willing to say I do not plan to play Graal no matter where it goes.

So who wants to help me with the website?

Can’t help you with the technical stuff, but in terms of organization, sure. I can work on cleaning up the forums a little as well.

I wouldn’t be against that. What do you even need done?

Just need someone to clean up the text and add small amounts content. I can do all the php work. It just needs some cosmetic love.

wow I’m finally useful for something other than shutting people down? I can do this pretty easily.

Don’t let us down